Curse

Train · Apr 17, 2006, 09:18 AM // 09:18

I'd like some suggestions on this pressure build, I think we're going to run this in the next season. This is the build, feel free to post any comments or opinions.

Hammer Warrior

Warrior/Necromancer
Level: 20

Strength: 10 (9+1)
Tactics: 10 (9+1)
Hammer Mastery: 16 (12+4)

- Backbreaker [Elite] (Hammer Mastery)
- Crushing Blow (Hammer Mastery)
- Irresistible Blow (Hammer Mastery)
- "To The Limit!" (Tactics)
- Frenzy (Warrior other)
- Rush (Strength)
- Healing Signet (Tactics)
- Resurrection Signet ()

Shock Warrior

Warrior/Elementalist
Level: 20

Strength: 11 (10+1)
Axe Mastery: 16 (12+4)
Tactics: 9 (8+1)
Air Magic: 2

- Eviscerate [Elite] (Axe Mastery)
- Executioner's Strike (Axe Mastery)
- Bull's Strike (Strength)
- Shock (Air Magic)
- Frenzy (Warrior other)
- Sprint (Strength)
- Healing Signet (Tactics)
- Resurrection Signet ()

Anti-Warrior Mes

Mesmer/Monk
Level: 20

Fast Casting: 10 (9+1)
Inspiration Magic: 10 (9+1)
Illusion Magic: 16 (12+4)

- Ineptitude [Elite] (Illusion Magic)
- Clumsiness (Illusion Magic)
- Conjure Phantasm (Illusion Magic)
- Imagined Burden (Illusion Magic)
- Spirit of Failure (Inspiration Magic)
- Drain Enchantment (Inspiration Magic)
- Distortion (Illusion Magic)
- Resurrection Signet ()

Dom Mes

Mesmer/Elementalist
Level: 20

Fast Casting: 9 (8+1)
Domination Magic: 16 (12+4)
Inspiration Magic: 10 (9+1)
Air Magic: 5

- Energy Surge [Elite] (Domination Magic)
- Energy Burn (Domination Magic)
- Signet of Weariness (Domination Magic)
- Signet of Humility (Inspiration Magic)
- Gale (Air Magic)
- Mantra of Inscriptions (Inspiration Magic)
- Drain Enchantment (Inspiration Magic)
- Resurrection Signet ()

Hex Necro

Necromancer/Monk
Level: 20

Soul Reaping: 4 (3+1)
Curses: 12 (11+1)
Blood Magic: 15 (11+4)
Healing Prayers: 8

- Offering of Blood [Elite] (Blood Magic)
- Faintheartedness (Curses)
- Life Siphon (Blood Magic)
- Parasitic Bond (Curses)
- Price of Failure (Curses)
- Heal Party (Healing Prayers)
- Draw Conditions (Protection Prayers)
- Resurrect (Monk other)

Boon Monk

Monk/Mesmer
Level: 20

Divine Favor: 15 (12+3)
Protection Prayers: 9 (8+1)
Inspiration Magic: 10

- Divine Boon (Divine Favor)
- Mantra of Recall [Elite] (Inspiration Magic)
- Guardian (Protection Prayers)
- Mend Ailment (Protection Prayers)
- Protective Spirit (Protection Prayers)
- Reversal of Fortune (Protection Prayers)
- Contemplation of Purity (Divine Favor)
- Inspired Hex (Inspiration Magic)

Boon Monk

Monk/Mesmer
Level: 20

Divine Favor: 15 (12+3)
Protection Prayers: 9 (8+1)
Inspiration Magic: 10

- Divine Boon (Divine Favor)
- Mantra of Recall [Elite] (Inspiration Magic)
- Guardian (Protection Prayers)
- Mend Condition (Protection Prayers)
- Signet of Devotion (Divine Favor)
- Reversal of Fortune (Protection Prayers)
- Contemplation of Purity (Divine Favor)
- Inspired Hex (Inspiration Magic)

Air Runner

Elementalist/Monk
Level: 20

Energy Storage: 10 (9+1)
Air Magic: 16 (12+4)
Healing Prayers: 9

- Ether Prodigy [Elite] (Energy Storage)
- Windborne Speed (Air Magic)
- Blinding Flash (Air Magic)
- Enervating Charge (Air Magic)
- Lightning Orb (Air Magic)
- Lightning Strike (Air Magic)
- Heal Party (Healing Prayers)
- Healing Breeze (Healing Prayers)

JR · Apr 17, 2006, 12:06 PM // 12:06

Decent build, not much more to say.

rii · Apr 18, 2006, 09:41 AM // 09:41

The only thing you might change is the anti-warrior mes. Sub in el/me with prod to spam SI, Sshackles, CP, etc...the blind might not be that useful when you already have a flash turret, and you get more CP with prod. It would also give you the energy for persistence, unless you really want distortion. If you stay as me primary, perhaps migraine... and keep the SOF engine. Thats too streamlined a shutdown illusion build for me.

JR · Apr 18, 2006, 09:49 AM // 09:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by rii

The only thing you might change is the anti-warrior mes. Sub in el/me with prod to spam SI, Sshackles, CP, etc...the blind might not be that useful when you already have a flash turret, and you get more CP with prod. It would also give you the energy for persistence, unless you really want distortion. If you stay as me primary, perhaps migraine... and keep the SOF engine. Thats too streamlined a shutdown illusion build for me.

We ran an Ineptitude/Clumsiness mesmer for a while back in FnlD, it was very effective. The bonus of the high spec in Illusion being the other great skills you can get from that line; Conjure Phantasm, Distortion and to a slightly lesser extent Imagined Burden. Not a bad character at all, if you have a mesmer who is good at reading warriors. Putting it on just as they frenzy for an adren spike is so satisfying.

wheel · Apr 18, 2006, 09:53 AM // 09:53

Mend Condition > Mend Ailment on at least one monk since both have CoP.

rii · Apr 18, 2006, 10:38 AM // 10:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

We ran an Ineptitude/Clumsiness mesmer for a while back in FnlD, it was very effective. The bonus of the high spec in Illusion being the other great skills you can get from that line; Conjure Phantasm, Distortion and to a slightly lesser extent Imagined Burden. Not a bad character at all, if you have a mesmer who is good at reading warriors. Putting it on just as they frenzy for an adren spike is so satisfying.

I dont disagree the damage is nice, it is very good (although personally ineptitude doesnt seem that hard to aviod if you know its coming). The main point is that the main shudown effect of inep. is the blind, which is already being supplied by the flash turret. In a split thats fine, but in an 8v8 brawl you could well just end up treading on each others toes.

Train · Apr 18, 2006, 10:39 AM // 10:39

The second monk has Mend Condition. Anyway, I don't think we'll change the illusion mes for an ele or a migraine, it's just fine as it is...and yes, it's really funny watching a warrior under frenzy taking lots of damage from Ineptitude. Thx for the opinions so far ^^

Quote:

Originally Posted by rii

I dont disagree the damage is nice, it is very good (although personally ineptitude doesnt seem that hard to aviod if you know its coming). The main point is that the main shudown effect of inep. is the blind, which is already being supplied by the flash turret. In a split thats fine, but in an 8v8 brawl you could well just end up treading on each others toes.

Blinding is just a welcome secondary effect, the main purpose is to block spikes.

JR · Apr 18, 2006, 12:18 PM // 12:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Train

Blinding is just a welcome secondary effect, the main purpose is to block spikes.

Exactly. Ineptitude is something that can be extremely effective if you time it well, it completely screws over adren spikes. The blind effect is nice, but the scary side to it is if you can consistantly land it on Warriors who have just Frenzied.

rii · Apr 18, 2006, 01:05 PM // 13:05

Well, i might as well be devils advocate -

The current build doesnt have soothing images, and since your arguing its use to stop spikes imagine you turned it into an argument for soothing images vs. ineptitude for stopping adrenal spikes and other warrior/ranger based spikes. Soothing Images denies all adrenaline... with mantra and high illu. it can last for around 30s with a 5s cooldown. In a metagame where hex removal is light and most guilds run two warriors (both of which hold adrenaline as key) soothing images isnt hard to realistically maintain with a cover of conjure/clumsiness or whatever.

Inep. stops the damage of one warrior, not two. If coordinated with the other warrior, you might not even be stopping the deep wound. Considering that inep. has a one second casting time (take 10 FC to reduce it to 0.65s) your pushing it a little to work as an interrupt, especially considering the nature of illusion, which isnt about camping someone out. CP is for everyone.

Inep. grows in strength a little when considering ranger damage. Twisting around the lack of true damage rangers/spikers at the moment, a prodigy caster has to make do with spirit shackles and maybe clumsiness to keep these guys down...

As for the damage, well, 200 damage isnt to be coughed at, but in relation to the current enviroment (not to just counters) healing signet nullifies a lot of that damage. While it also nullifies CP, that can be used on people who dont attack etc. To put it into relation to cp, a high specced cp with mantra deals 250 damage.. inep. with frenzy deals about the same.

All in all, your arguement of me over elme is that inep. does a large amount of spike damage and can be used to stop spikes with some lolfrenzying. All true, but considering a few nuances of the current enviroment and the actual skills you would run in an anti-warrior prodigy caster, it probably isnt as good. Prodigy works more over time, and is a bit more secure.

JR · Apr 18, 2006, 01:49 PM // 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by rii

[...]

In theory you have a very good argument, and without the benefit of experience I would probably be swayed your way. However; having used an Inep/Clums mesmer in GvG, and had decent warriors swear to kill our mesmer, I think it is more effective than most people assume.

moriz · Apr 19, 2006, 07:34 PM // 19:34

ineptitude+clumsiness also has the potential to drop a unsuspecting warrior by themselves. the combined damage of those two spells while under frenzy is at least 300+, which will drop any warrior at around 80% health. ineptitude also serves well as a finisher as well. i can't count the number of times i dropped casters who decide to wand.

using them in gvg seem to be rather unconventional. the only time i've seen it used in gvg was on a team that ran the "warrior's bane" necro premade. surprisingly, that actually worked.

rii · Apr 19, 2006, 08:48 PM // 20:48

It works no doubt. It's just whether it is as good as other options availiable that is the question.

Guillaume De Sonoma · Apr 19, 2006, 10:09 PM // 22:09

I agree with Rii here because the ability to completely shutdown adreniline spikes before they even start is better, imo, than being able to blind and damage one warrior even though frenzy'd damage will be great.

Vindexus · Apr 20, 2006, 12:41 AM // 00:41

You can't just look at Inept as "they'll be blind in the spike and take damage". Inept and Clumsiness really forces warriors to play much less aggresively. They'll Frenzy a lot less and overextend less as well. I've seen other Warriors do it and I've done it myself.

All in all a solid build, the only things I would change would just be personal preference skills, but the core of the build is very strong.

For example on the Surger I'd drop Humility and Insrictions for something else. I don't know what elite your need to black out all the time, and even if you find one it takes quite a commitment to black it out completely. I'd probably put in Cry of Frustration and Power Leak, or Mind Wrack. CoF is simply amazing, and Power Leak hurts a lot on a monk that just swapped up. Mind Wrack just for some more damage and another cover hex.

But yeah, great build.

tafy69 · Apr 20, 2006, 05:55 AM // 05:55

I gota say that as a warrior it is truly my worst nightmare to have a Ineptitude/Clumsiness mesmer camping you. You end up being to scared to use frenzy and a lot of your adrenaline spikes are ruined completely.

Patccmoi · Apr 21, 2006, 07:46 PM // 19:46

My main problem would be that your Mesmer uses Gale + Resurrect =p

Since it's your only hard rez, you might want to consider wether you drop Gale and go Me/Mo (i wouldn't recommand it, you're already low on interrupts and spikes could be pretty dangerous without it) or try to fit it on someone else (Necro could, i used Resurrect on Hexing Necro before and it works great cause they're ignored very often, you always have the energy for it with OoB, and you tend to be in the back)

Otherwise i agree with others, solid build. I would likely change the Dom Mes around for a GoR in GvG, but it is personal preferences at this point and i can't say yours won't work (well out of that Me/E/Mo thing).

Heal Party seems a little too energy intensive imo on a Hexer (your energy is already so tight, especially if you add Draw Condition). Did you consider something like Plague Sending? Since you Draw, if you manage to get something like Bleeding or Poison that are long duration (and quite common), you can throw them on someone to add pressure. Or if you Draw Blinding Flash, you can throw it on AOE on the wars, which can screw them a bit. Otherwise you could switch that 8 Healing for 8 Prot and go for Aegis. Draw would heal you too decently with 8 prot, and Aegis is less energy intensive than HP overall, and it's not bad to have. Against things like Ranger spike, it at least lets your monks have an idea of who will be spiked because most teams will remove it like 0.5-1 second before the spike hits (otherwise you likely just screwed the spike). Slows adrenal gain on warriors too, and since you don't have wards that could be very useful.

Train · Apr 22, 2006, 11:36 AM // 11:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patccmoi

...

Thanksfor suggestions...about that Me/E/Mo, Ressurrect was supposed to be on the second mesmer, made a mistake with GWFreaks ^^'
I'll try for sure to use Aegis on the Hex Necro. I was thinking about switching the Axe Warrior for a Sword one, Final Thrust is simply amazing.

JR · Apr 22, 2006, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Train

Thanksfor suggestions...about that Me/E/Mo, Ressurrect was supposed to be on the second mesmer, made a mistake with GWFreaks ^^'

Fixed.